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 Thank you Saints!

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PostSubject: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:21 pm

Tom Brady is still the better QB.

Dooooo the dance!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:33 pm

sgibs7 wrote:
Tom Brady is still the better QB.

Dooooo the dance!
PM is da mannnnn. TB couldnt get it dne with Moss and Welker. Manning got there with Wayne, Clark ( A TE) and 2 rookies (I think) that made plays at WR....

Brady has always had a Better D...... Case closeddddd
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:55 pm

Brady never had any weapons with his three rings.

Besides that point. if we to look at a QB and define them...all aspects need to be recognized. That's why Bradys rings make him the better qb. If your looking for accolades well he has the best single season a QB has ever had.

Manning has better numbers but that's it.

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:09 pm

Awesome... You're not really a football forum until you've got a Brady-vs-Manning debate going.

Not that there should even be one; Brady is clearly the Man until Peyton proves he can do something beyond leading fantasy football teams to a title. And it's not like Brady hasn't done that himself at times. Manning has a ring, yes, but so does Trent Dilfer. And Brad Johnson. And plenty of other guys that aren't great just because they have only one ring.
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:21 pm

IF Manning one...now keep in mind I'm a homer but I respect the game enough to understand greatness when I see it...but if peyton won, in my mind he's the GOAT. He would have it all the rings the stats and the sass of a champ.

However he didn't win...so we are still left with the following list...

Montana
Brady
Manning

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:33 pm

^^^ NUFF SAID
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:59 pm

You still cant deny this fact
Manning got there with IMO still a young team (skill positions wise) and he willed his team there with a suspect run game.

NE's Defense has been and is still WAYYYYYYYY better then the colts.... Can you name any other players who were on the colts teams the past 6 years besides.... Dwight, Mathis, Bob Saunders, Gary Bracket..... I cant. If I felt like it I could rip off about 11 names of NE defensive players over that time span

And gibs you kind of dnt make any since...You say that Bardy is the better QB and that he won SB's with NO wepons on O.... But the year when the has the best deep threat in the game and the best slot WR in the game and a good TE and the best 3rd down RB in the game, he cant get it done......

Brady 07 never had to come frm behind EVER cause their O was great and their D was good.... Manning this year won like 7 games by coming back in the 2nd half..... Nuff said


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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Ya we lost on 07. I'm talking what he has done and what he has done is orchestrate three rings.

If we are going to talk about playmakers on D we are talking ty law, harrison, bruschi, samuel, wilfork, seymour. Outside that core I wouldn't call anyone else from anyteam dating back to 2001. if I forgot someone post it.

As good as the D was as a unit remember our feature back was antoine smith. Our number 1 and 2 wrs were troy brown/david givens/deion branch. Our offense was pathetic.

Over the course of their careers Manning has had the better offense and Brady has had the better D.

Now they both have great Os and suspect D.

Still as a career give me a qb with 3 rings vs one with only one.

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:03 pm

Manning is better. If u know anything about football u would know Manning is the greatest QB right now and maybe of alltime. U cant base everything on rings. Brady had an amazing d in all of his superbowls. MAnning hasnt had a great d. The superbowl is more of a team thing rather than just QB. And Brady should really only have 2 rings because the refs gave the pats there first ring when Brady fumbled agaisnt the raiders. But imo Manning is the best right now followed behind Brady and Brees
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:46 pm

this is funny cause my man Colonel said that Manning was a "BUM" in the colts loss to the saints in the superbowl loss now he is pubbing him up on this thread! which one is it Colonel? is he great or a bum? lol! you know i gotta mess with you! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:30 pm

Brady has had a much better career than Manning.. You guys keep saying Manning has had a terrible D, but last time I checked Freeney leads the league in sacks since the 02 season, Mathis is just as leathal on the other side, Bob Sanders (although always hurt) is one of the best safeties in the game, and Gary Brackett isnt no pushover.. And Manning has had a MUCH better offense over time, am i the only one that remembers when he had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne on both sides, Dallas Clark on the line, and Edgerrin James in the backfield with him?? You cant even make an argument that Mannings offense hasnt been as good
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:18 pm

Tuck Rule=FUMBLE. Brady never deserved that 1st ring and everyone knows that. Not only was he lucky but he couldn't do anything against the Steelers in the 2001 AFC Championship game, got hurt and DREW BLEDSOE came in and won the game for the Patriots. Brady then had a less than stellar 145 yard, 1 TD game in the SB. BTW, a person by the name of Matt Cassel stepped in for an injured Brady in 2008 and led the Pats to an 11-5 season. This year Brady had a 10-6 season, which could have easily been 8-8 if it wasn't for the Bills and Ravens screw ups. Could you see Jim Sorgi or Curtis Painter coming in for Manning and going 11-5? We all saw the answer to that when Jim Caldwell pulled the starters in Week 16. Brady is a system QB and there is no better proof of that than 2008 when Cassel filled in for him. Great teams win SB's, great QB's have the stats and win MVP's. By the way, since Spygate, Brady is 5-4 with 17 TD's and 12 INT's in the playoffs, hardly superstar numbers. Brady had his run when the Patriots were great but Manning has been more consistent and for a much longer duration. Manning For Life!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:29 am

Stock1528 wrote:
Tuck Rule=FUMBLE. Brady never deserved that 1st ring and everyone knows that. Not only was he lucky but he couldn't do anything against the Steelers in the 2001 AFC Championship game, got hurt and DREW BLEDSOE came in and won the game for the Patriots. Brady then had a less than stellar 145 yard, 1 TD game in the SB. BTW, a person by the name of Matt Cassel stepped in for an injured Brady in 2008 and led the Pats to an 11-5 season. This year Brady had a 10-6 season, which could have easily been 8-8 if it wasn't for the Bills and Ravens screw ups. Could you see Jim Sorgi or Curtis Painter coming in for Manning and going 11-5? We all saw the answer to that when Jim Caldwell pulled the starters in Week 16. Brady is a system QB and there is no better proof of that than 2008 when Cassel filled in for him. Great teams win SB's, great QB's have the stats and win MVP's. By the way, since Spygate, Brady is 5-4 with 17 TD's and 12 INT's in the playoffs, hardly superstar numbers. Brady had his run when the Patriots were great but Manning has been more consistent and for a much longer duration. Manning For Life!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:13 am

Great QBs have stats eh?

Short term memory loss...look up Brady state in 2007.

Again its all opinion here but if we look at things and certain significant "plays" and say what if and then define someone based off that how can anyone truly be satisfied with that definition? What if Manning doesn't throw that pick? What if washington doesn't throw his arm up and stop edge? well guess what you have to live with what happened. I got a what if for ya...what if david tyree doesn't make that catch? What if eli doesn't escape? What if replay doesn't exist...how would things be different...there are thousands of scenarios...not only in football...but in life where our perception would be changed if we based it off " what if" situations. People do this allllll the time with Brady...well guess what...facts are facts...he has the single best season...statistically by a qb...he also has three rings. Let's keep going.

If we are to compare Brady and Manning by their CAREER and nit by the current...bc yes Manning was the best in tje league this year...then we can determine a few things...

Manning is better statistically...
Brady has the best single season ever...

Manning is a reg season winner
Brady is a reg season winner

Where they differ is in the playoffs Brady has won three rings to manning one.

Statistically over a career manning is better...however what's more important...stats or rings....bc ill take three rings AND the best single season.

End rant.

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:56 am

This is fun! Let's compare Brady's 2007 season to Manning's 2004 season.

The 1st big thing is that Brady played a FULL 16 games and had 50 TD's. Manning played 15 games and had 49. Avg. TD's Per Game- Brady-3.13 Manning-3.27

Brady's QB rating-117.2. Manning's QB rating-121.1

Brady fumbles lost-4. Manning-1.

Brady- 398 completions for 50 TD's. Manning- 336 completions for 49 TD's.

That's also the only season in Brady's career that he has over 29 TD's. Can you say fluke or as they call it, "Lightning in a Bottle?"

Some of Brady's TD's also came in garbage time like when they were up by 35 or whatever it was against the Redskins and they were still airing it out. Manning is a class act, Brady does garbage things like call a T.O before halftime against my Titans when they were already up by 28. This T.O wasn't to kick a FG, it was to go for a TD so Brady could get the record for TD's in a quarter. They run up scores and have no class and Belichick is a piece of crap and I have no respect for him or the Patriots.

Also, let's look at playoffs games compared to INT's.

Brady- 18 games-15 INT's Manning 18 games-18 INT's. Not much of a difference there is there? Brady also has 3 career playoff games with 3 or more INT's, Manning has had 1.

My point with all these stats is that Brady has not had to be perfect to win his SB's where Manning has. Manning never had Vinatieri to bail him out like Brady has, he always had Vanderjerk who did the complete opposite. Supporting cast makes a huge difference and to solely base greatness on SB rings is crazy. Look at Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Hall of Famers and two of the best of all time. They have 0 Super Bowl rings because he didn't have the supporting cast to seal the deal. For example, Kelly's kicker missing the last second field goal against the NYG causing them to lose 20-19. Brady has always had the little things like a solid, clutch kicker and a solid D. Granted that isn't his fault but that is why I say that Super Bowl wins should not dictate greatness because it takes a great TEAM to get there, not necessarily a great QB. I will fight you to the death about this Gibs because I am very passionate about my hatred for the Patriots and I live in Rhode Island!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:10 pm

It can't continue bc you argue about points on brady such as vinateri bailing him out?

So then garret hearlty bailed out brees? Its apart of the game.

2007 stats compared to 2004...why are the 2007 stats better? 18-1 and a super bowl appearance.

Like I said...Manning is the better QB statically. I won't deny him that.

For me though ill take a QB that leads me to three rings.

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:26 pm

Stock1528 wrote:
Tuck Rule=FUMBLE. Brady never deserved that 1st ring and everyone knows that. Not only was he lucky but he couldn't do anything against the Steelers in the 2001 AFC Championship game, got hurt and DREW BLEDSOE came in and won the game for the Patriots. Brady then had a less than stellar 145 yard, 1 TD game in the SB. BTW, a person by the name of Matt Cassel stepped in for an injured Brady in 2008 and led the Pats to an 11-5 season. This year Brady had a 10-6 season, which could have easily been 8-8 if it wasn't for the Bills and Ravens screw ups. Could you see Jim Sorgi or Curtis Painter coming in for Manning and going 11-5? We all saw the answer to that when Jim Caldwell pulled the starters in Week 16. Brady is a system QB and there is no better proof of that than 2008 when Cassel filled in for him. Great teams win SB's, great QB's have the stats and win MVP's. By the way, since Spygate, Brady is 5-4 with 17 TD's and 12 INT's in the playoffs, hardly superstar numbers. Brady had his run when the Patriots were great but Manning has been more consistent and for a much longer duration. Manning For Life!!!!

^^hey now! lol!

sure, the Ravens "surprisingly" lost that regular season game to the Patriots at home in M&T Bank Stadium, however, don't forget, that my "Dirty Black-Birds" went into Foxboro (a place where the Pasts hadn't lost a home playoff game since the 70's i believe?) and after having NEVER beaten the Pats before EVER, and silenced the crowd by blasting them in the 1st rd of the playoffs. lol!

P.S. sorry Gibs, i had to respond when i saw the word Ravens! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:42 pm

No problem mili lol

We got spankedddddd

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:01 pm

Haha ya Mili they definitely gave them a beating! I was just pointing out that if The Bills didn't fumble and Clayton caught that ball the Pats would have been 8-8 and missed the playoffs. However, as Gibs said, you can't play what if!
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:13 pm

if tracy port doesn't make that pick 6 the saints might not win.

If faulk gets the 4th and 2 the colts lose and the pats are perceived as the best in the afc.

Playing what if is illogical. Everything happens for a reason.

Stock can you tell I love Brady as much as you hate him lol. Love these debates!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:17 pm

You guys would make great espn analysts. I've never seen anyone go into that much detail about the brady-manning debate.
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:39 pm

Ya I can tell! haha I don't live far from Boston, we could always play some live Madden and debate about it while we play! haha
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:52 pm

i love to see "true" fans passionate about their teams. and i know what you were saying about Clayton Stock and i highly agree. however, karma is a mutha! and my Ravens took the Pats out in the 1st rd. however, there are things that i absolutely love about Tom Brady. yes, Peyton is a beast (in certain respects or aspects) however, Tom "Terrific" is just as cool as the other side of the pillow. lol! i always wanted to say that! lol!

and cats can say whatever they will and play the "stat" game all year long....that man (Brady) has 3....count them....3 SUPERBOWL rings. my main man Ray Lewis only has 1 ring.....like Peyton! lol! many even tried to compare Urlacher to Ray Lewis (you knew i had to squeeze a Raven in this debate somehow...lol) and say that he was better. huhhhhhhhhhh? pleeeeeeease! Urlacher couldn't even fasten Ray's chin strap. lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:19 pm

sgibs7 wrote:
It can't continue bc you argue about points on brady such as vinateri bailing him out?

So then garret hearlty bailed out brees? Its apart of the game.

2007 stats compared to 2004...why are the 2007 stats better? 18-1 and a super bowl appearance.

Like I said...Manning is the better QB statically. I won't deny him that.

For me though ill take a QB that leads me to three rings.

Let me say this gibs. Brady lead u to 2 rings, the first ring HE didnt LEAD....

And you can bring up NE being 18-1 (07) vs the colts being 15-3 (this year) all u want to....

But Brady 07 had the best offensive playmakers you can argue of all time. They rival the greatest show on turf Rams.... You had the best deep threat in the game and the best slot in the game a good TE the bast 3rd down RB in the lg. ANd a VERRRRY solid defense. A VET defense, A Smart defense

Vs this years colts who yes had Wayne and Clark......Adai (or how ever u spell his name) wasnt even all that good. And Indy lost Gonzo their 1st game.... yes the colts had an ok defense, they had imo an above average pass defense (not great). But imo they had a very sorry run D.....

07 brady not once had to play from behind....NOT ONCE!!! this year Manning came from behind 7 times. This year the colts won every game except for one that they wanted to win..... The same for Brady in 07.

How many games did the PATs win this year 10 games???? And you saw how sorry Brady looked when Welker was hurt.....Thats the same as Manning not having Gonzo......Hmmmmmm Brady couldnt pull out 1 game without Welker while Manning won 14 straight without gonzo.

Not directing this twards anyone on this site, but I hate how some people just blindly follow Brady without speaking the real. The pats have had a bend but dnt break defense forever.... All Brady has to do is score about 17 points and theyre staight cuz the D is solid... Manning has to score 28 to give the D the leway to win the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Thank you Saints!   Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:54 pm

ill finish reading after I post...lol

I stopped when you said we have a good TE and the best 3rd down back. Ben watson in real life SUCKS. He almost got cut this year. And you can't ne serious about a 3rd down back...

You act like the colts have no weapons! Wayne and clark are potentially the best one to punch in tje gm. Addai and brown are a explosive backfield. Collie and garcon are good role players.

Let's not OVER celebrate the pats weapons and downgrade the colts.

At one time they had edge, wayne, clarke, and harrison all on the field at the same time. 4 potential hall of fame candidates.

Ben watson a good TE! This isn't madden!!!! Its real life.

Ok ill finish now lol

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