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 Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2

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shorticus



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PostSubject: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:09 pm

There has been a recent discovery in the MRL regarding milking the clock. It seems like what has been discovered is that this is occurring, but not many people are speaking out about it.

In the past few days, I have heard from a couple of players about people milking the clock. Not only that, I have been a victim of someone milking. I will not reveal my sources, but I will say that this may be a problem.

Before I go on my rant, I will say that the reason I know that it is being hidden, is because I actually milked someone. It was my first MRL game or second last season and I burned the whole clock. The guy told me that it was wrong cause that wasn't allowed in the league. After I reviewed it, I realized that it was only under 2 mins, and I apologized for it. For some reason, I thought I'd read that it was the last qtr, and I was wrong.

This leads to my point. We should just go ahead and allow milking. Even though asslaws (BOUTLAWS in the twitter community) was milking the clock, he should not be faulted for taking the lead and managing the game...to me that's not fair. I would like to suggest that we increase the qtr length to 6 minutes and just go ahead and allow milking. This would allow enough time for each team to have multiple possessions and a fair shot at winning.

The reason that I say that it needs to be allowed is because perception screws up the whole milking theory. First off, if you are behind in a game, you are looking to make sure you aren't being milked, and there is no way to have a definitive way of being sure. If someone takes the clock down once, is that really milking? JayNizz makes a good point about being able to tell, but perception also has a lot to do with what you see and how you feel at the time you see it.

Also, if you are ahead, why should you be forced to rush, you did what you needed to do to get ahead, and now you should just have to maintain. With the way this league is created (I actually like it) having to be forced into picking some teams, you have to play to that teams advantage. If the defense is not strong, then you are forced to play at a disadvantage because you can't use your offense to keep your defense off the field.

I had more to say about this, but I left for lunch and lost my train of thought when I return.

Let's talk about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:53 pm

Im just asking here. Did the other teams offense change when he had the lead? Was he doing the same stuff, shifting, NO HUDDLE, motion, before and after the lead?

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shorticus



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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:24 pm

If you are talking about asslaws, his offense didn't change. As a matter of fact, his offense stayed the same, but in the first half, he was getting the ball off at about 18-20 secs and in the 2nd half it was 5-10 secs.

The other problem I had was he had a wide open field and (in my opinion) ran into my guy so that he could further run down the clock at the goal line. I really can't say that it was intentional, but it was what I saw (that's goes back to the perception argument). I would not have been pissed about that if it would have been the only thing that happened.

There are 2 sides to that argument and it can go either way, but that's why I'm suggesting that we just do away with it. Cause technically, there should not be a problem with effectively holding the ball if you are ahead.

The only reason I have a problem with what he did is because there is a rule in place to deal with those situations. Otherwise, that's just football, and I am perfectly fine with it. I would have been upset about losing, but I would have no problem with him personally. That would be a me problem.
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shorticus



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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:28 pm

I will say this as well. One of the guys said that he was running the clock down to 25 at first, then started running the clock to under 15. I don't know that this constitutes milking, but it is just another argument that will be made.

I am not intending to spark a fire here, and looking back, I kinda wish I wouldn't have, because this is going to open up a sh!t storm. I do feel like we need to nip it in the bud asap tho cause our league is growing rapidly, and you don't want to have rules open for interpretation once you are over 100 people. At this pace, we will be there before the release of Madden 12.
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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:43 pm

Leaving things as subjective and open to interpretation ALWAYS causes discontent in any type of league. In another league that i am in, our gm qtrs are 6 min long and we have a "loose" rule that you should hike the ball by the 10 seconds mark. The argument made there was that in the first half you wouldnt have opponents milking to 10 seconds every play because it's early and that the extra time left on the playclock in those early series makes up for the milking at the end of the game.

There are going to be times where you go under 10 seconds (after an injury or time out, or just by mistake), but at least there is a firm number there. In the other league, if you went below 10, you just had to hike the ball how ever many seconds earlier on the next trip to the line. It's more of an honor rule than anything but it was put into place because the league as a whole felt it was a proper strategy for members that have teams like the browns, ravens, falcons, etc who's team is built for ball control and defense.

I dont think the majority of the members here would be for a 6 min qtr but i think 5 min would be fair and eliminate the milking notion or put a 10 second/7 second limit on it. Figure your average play clock is 40-45 seconds so in order to have a 5 min drive you would have to run 7.5 play drive with 0 clock stoppages and would have to bring the clock all the way down to 0 on every snap in order to do it. That's difficult to do in itself but if you cant stop a 10-12 play drive then, imo, that's your fault. Also putting to 5 min qtrs i think would illicit a more open style of play since the risk of making a mistake is a little less damning as it is with 4 min qtrs.
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shorticus



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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:04 pm

SDU, I think I agree with you, but I'm not sure I am fully comprehending what you are saying at the end. I mean, either 6 minutes or 5 minutes, but the point is let milking the clock be illegal. I find that in almost every case where a judgment where a judgment call has to be made, it will cause problems. The best solution to that is to take as many "judgment calls" away as possible.

I don't think the commissioners want anyone here to feel cheated out of a victory every time they play so I think that this is the best way to go about that.

I've learned that when working with large groups of people, you try your best to make everything black and white with no gray area. By not having a gray area, less things are subject to argument and the rules there for everyone to see.

Lesser gray areas = Lesser complaints.
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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:09 pm

make milking the clock "legal." or put a limit on it (say hike before 7 or 10 seconds on the clock). move qtrs to 5.
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shorticus



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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:23 pm

See IMHO you can't really put a limit on it....to me that serves no purpose, but it does make it black and white. I just say increase the clock and run with that. It makes no sense for someone to be milking in the 1st half anyway cause the game is far from over, but you will have your people who do it.

If everyone utilizes these forums, you can come and write a scouting report on the milkers, and you adjust accordingly when you play that person. I would much rather be able to see a scouting report that says, hey if such and such gets the lead, he is gonna milk the clock. Rather than be in the middle of the game and guess that hey this person is trying to milk the clock and get burnt on a PA pass that would put the score out of reach.
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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:34 pm

Milking the clock -

none of us here come to play the game to be milked. If you allow milking to be done at all stages of the game, from my experiance, you will see the members in the league dwindle.

There is nothing worse then working a full day to come home and try and enjoy a game of Madden and be milked out the entire game.

Milking should be reserved for under 2 minute sin both quarters.

Unfortunalty this is a rule that needs to be forced by integrity and integrity only.

Police yourselves.

*milking consists of sitting in a formation and not making hot routes or adjustments or any audibles - milking is also nonsense audibling and bogus hot routes just to waste time*

If you have to even question yourself..."am I milking?" then odds are yes...you are.

My vote...run the clock under 2 mins ONLY in botht he 2nd and 4th quarter UNDER the 2 minute warning.

Police yourselves and show a d@mn back bone. Don't beat the system, respect the league, respect your opponent, and most importantly respect yourself.

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nitka

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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:01 am

sgibs wrote:
Milking the clock -

none of us here come to play the game to be milked. If you allow milking to be done at all stages of the game, from my experiance, you will see the members in the league dwindle.

There is nothing worse then working a full day to come home and try and enjoy a game of Madden and be milked out the entire game.

Milking should be reserved for under 2 minute sin both quarters.

Unfortunalty this is a rule that needs to be forced by integrity and integrity only.

Police yourselves.

*milking consists of sitting in a formation and not making hot routes or adjustments or any audibles - milking is also nonsense audibling and bogus hot routes just to waste time*

If you have to even question yourself..."am I milking?" then odds are yes...you are.

My vote...run the clock under 2 mins ONLY in botht he 2nd and 4th quarter UNDER the 2 minute warning.

Police yourselves and show a d@mn back bone. Don't beat the system, respect the league, respect your opponent, and most importantly respect yourself.

Thanks Gibs!! That is how it is set up now. Everyone was calling for an increase in the qtr and allow it. I agree 100% its about integrity.

Guys just play the game already, a big part of the members that I love is that we dont have to make up a rule for every 1 thing that happens. Thats why I haved loved co-running this league, because of the members!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:12 am

sgibs wrote:
Milking the clock -

none of us here come to play the game to be milked. If you allow milking to be done at all stages of the game, from my experiance, you will see the members in the league dwindle.

There is nothing worse then working a full day to come home and try and enjoy a game of Madden and be milked out the entire game.

Milking should be reserved for under 2 minute sin both quarters.

Unfortunalty this is a rule that needs to be forced by integrity and integrity only.

Police yourselves.

*milking consists of sitting in a formation and not making hot routes or adjustments or any audibles - milking is also nonsense audibling and bogus hot routes just to waste time*

If you have to even question yourself..."am I milking?" then odds are yes...you are.

My vote...run the clock under 2 mins ONLY in botht he 2nd and 4th quarter UNDER the 2 minute warning.

Police yourselves and show a d@mn back bone. Don't beat the system, respect the league, respect your opponent, and most importantly respect yourself.
i whole heartedly agree, MILKING is the worst and to me just cowardly!!! lets keep the qrt length the same and only be allowed to milk last 2mins of 2nd/4th qrts

i think anyone who has played me can attest that im in attack mode alll the time no matter what ! if you put up more points than your opponents then you win its that simple , i mean run the score up if you can ? i try to do it and why not thats how you establish dominance and show the rest of the league that you mean business. i play this game for fun and a loss is a loss but ill go out swinging no matter what !! and not just concede by running draw after draw after draw lol @ shocker

and to bring up a diff point certain peeps complain about being a 1 trick pony and only having one play on O or D, so i say THATS OK.... its on you/us to get in the lab and figure it out! how can i pick up this blitz or stop this play? hmmmmm move this guy that way ,hr him to block ect ect.... EVERYTHING that is not a glitch is beatable LETS GO!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:26 pm

Sometimes I see myself calling the wrong play because I am worried about milking the clock.
So if u allow milking you are allowing tournament players to not only play the way they are comfortable playing, but you are also allowing them to read the defense longer and adjust accordingly
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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:53 pm

KJ2 & JayNizz, thats what im talinkg about. I think the way the settings are right now are good. Nothing will ever be perfect because of all the different kinds of styles we have in the league. So just play the game, thats why we are here right?

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PostSubject: Re: Rule Issue - Milking pt. 2    Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:33 am

I say leave the games at 4min Q, but make milking legal at 2:40 at the end of each half.. It always gets to that time, and most people borderline milk there anyway because they aren't sure if they should just wait til the half or just pick a running play/passing play.. it's real confusing..

Most of the time, it's considered milking right before the 2 min warning because people will pick a play and use motion they've never used ever before just to let the clock run out.

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